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John Tamanaha

MSNBC.com contributor John Tamanaha tackles the hot topics in college football. From title contenders and Heisman hopefuls to coaches on the hot seat and recruiting battles, no issue is out of bounds.



These coaches' votes don't add up

Posted: Monday, December 03, 2007 9:15 PM

Although some of it isn’t in line with the spirit of the holiday season, it’s like Christmas come early when the ballots that make up the USA Today Top 25 coaches' poll are made public.  There’s so much to look at and discuss, much of it quite frightening.

 

Let’s start with Bob Stoops, who went all out to support his Sooners, placing them in the top spot, while also slotting LSU all the way down at No. 6. However, the Youngstown native didn’t attempt to do any sabotage to Ohio State’s point total, ranking the Buckeyes at No. 2. Too bad his brother Mike doesn’t vote in the poll. It would have been interesting to see how the Arizona head coach felt about such matters.

 

In a similar circumstance, Frank Beamer tried to help his Hokies as best he could, ranking them at No. 2, just behind the top-ranked LSU, the team that beat Virginia Tech 48-7. If he had known what Bob Stoops was going to do, maybe Beamer would have said, “Aw, heck,” and went for it as well.

 

Judging by his perception of the Big 12, Howard Schnellenberger of Florida Atlantic might be a little bit dizzy. He has Kansas at No. 2, Missouri at No. 4 and Oklahoma at No. 7. Let’s recap. The league champion Sooners are outranked by the Tigers, whom they just beat by 21 points to claim that title. And both of them are looking up at Kansas, the team that Missouri beat out for the Big 12 North title two weeks ago.

 

Although he’s sadly not alone in his botching of the Big 12 -- Steve Kragthorpe was nearly just as clueless, while Mike Bellotti (still steaming over the onside kick play?), Bobby Bowden and Tommy Bowden each had Missouri inexplicably ranked ahead of Oklahoma (Bobby has the Sooners way down at No. 10) -- we’re not done with Schnellenberger.

 

While some think that USC is playing just about as well as anyone in the nation, he has a vastly different opinion, ranking the Trojans well down the ladder at No. 12.  Don’t expect Schnellenberger to be tuning into the USC’s Rose Bowl game against Illinois, which he placed way down at No. 18.  I guess the former Miami boss doesn’t think much of the Fighting Illini’s victory at Ohio State, which, of course, is his top team.

 

Clearly a fan of the little guy, Schnellenberger ranked Hawaii at No. 3 and Boise State at No. 10.  But he’s got nothing on Hal Mumme of New Mexico State, who is the lone coach who gave the undefeated Warriors a first-place vote. Mumme must have been impressed by the Warriors’ 50-13 victory over his own passing circus. Perhaps better than anyone else, Mumme knows that winning games and throwing the football all over the yard aren’t easily joined.

 

I’m surprised that more coaches didn’t reward Hawaii for going 12-0 and downright shocked that former Texas A&M head coach Dennis Franchione (or whoever is filling out his ballot these days) had the Warriors at No. 22.

 

You’ve got to seriously wonder if these coaches knew that this information would be made public. I have to believe that they did, but it sure doesn’t look like it.

 

To end up on a positive note, the coach with the best ballot in my opinion is Joe Glenn of Wyoming. I’d like to thank him for paying attention and giving credit where it’s due.

 

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Comments

Dennis Franchione had the Warriors at No. 22. He should never be allowed to vote again. He should be ashamed of himself.
To be honest, I'm surprised that only one coach put Hawaii at number 1.  The mid major coaches had an opportunity to further their collective cause by placing one of their own in the BCS.  What does it tell the non BCS teams that even though they can go undefeated, they're still not good enough for a national title shot?  
Why shouldn't Stoops vote for his own team?  They had just run over the #1 ranked team in the country.  Sounds like a reason to feel worthy of playing in the NCG to me.
Oh, and as for LSU at #6, maybe the point spread of some games and lucky wins were a factor?
Good article!  You make it clear that the coaches poll can be somewhat of a popularity contest.  You failed to mention Schnellenberger's brief stint at OU where he was run off as head coach - thus the retaliation against Oklahoma University.  
Let me start up front by saying I am a Sooner fan, but in defense of Coach Bob Stoops, his team had just beaten the number 1 team in the nation and did in a very convincing manor. I think that a valid argument can be made for OU being given a shot at the national title as well as for USC, LSU and Hawaii since they are the only unbeaten team in division one this year.  This year is a perfect example for why we need a playoff to determine the National Championship, however I do not think that the "powers that be " area going to let that happen.
interesing! these coaches are just clueless. the need to watch how those teams performed to rank them, of course they still might be dumb and rank a 12-0 hawaii team at 22 or a USC team that is clearly one of the best in the nation below 10.
I am glad to see someone notice the travesty known as the coaches poll.  If a coach is so far out of line with the average vote of his compatriots, he should lose that right to vote indefinetely.  Franchione has notoriosly slighted the wac and mt. west by as much as 35-40% lower than any other conferences.  If he thinks they are so bad he should have picked them up as ooc games.  Wait he can't he lost his job for lack of knowledge about the game.  
It's a joke that the "coaches" poll is counted toward deciding our National Champion.  I would bet that most coaches don't even fill out there own poll, and that obviuosly they let there bias take over.  Steve Spurrier votes Duke number 25 to start every season.  Let's get the coaches poll out of here!
Coaches again reveal themselves as self-serving dolts with exactly zero sense of accountability or decency. Some leaders of men there, eh? And these are the guys who complain about the writers and the BCS? Gimme a break.
Joe Gelenn as best ballot.  That must be either an unfunny or you're as much of an idiot as he is.  First, he has Georgia at 10; no other coach ranked them as low.  Moreover, his ballot lacks consistency, as he has Georgia ranked behind Florida, even though Georgia beat Florida and has a better overall record.  Second, he has Clemson ahead of BC, even though there records are near identical (BC has one more win) and BC beat Clemson.  Lastly, no vote for Auburn (instead picking Air Force and Texas Tech).
I find it interesting that most articles promote Coach Bob Stoops as having not been fair voting OU first place and LSU sixth place.  Hardly any mention Coach Les Miles voting LSU in first place and OU in fifth place.
Your mention of Beamer's ballot does not make sense.  Beamer's ballot comes the closest to the objective measure of the computer polls where VT was ranked 1st.  Therefore, Beamer's ballot does add up.  What does not add up is that so many coaches threw out objectivity and ranked VT closer to 10th than to 1st.
You are kidding about Joe Glenn having the best ballot right?  UGA at 10?  That's ridiculous.
Think the coaches are bad how bout them BCS computers--One computer had Ohio State #1 and Missouri #2 and that same computer had Oklahoma ranked as #8 Go figure! The remaining five computers were just as bad in there consistency. Nothing will ever be settled until it is played out on the field.
Who cares about this college football season? All that
really matters is The Big Red! Now order can be restored. My beloved Huskers can return to Dominance!
We wrote the book on speed and power! (Tommie Frazier
and Zack weigert)The rest of college football really
does not matter!!!!!!!!!!

                       Rick C
Yes it appears that the coaches have agendas but the BCS computers are also lacking. (ie) the BCS computer attributed to Anderson & Hester had Ohio State ranked #1 ; Missouri ranked #2 ; Kansas ranked #3 and lo and behold Oklahoma ranked #4? Not so fast my friend Oklahoma ranked #8. Oh well garbage in, garbage out and the other five computers were also a joke!  
Yes it appears that the coaches have agendas but the BCS computers are also lacking. (ie) the BCS computer attributed to Anderson & Hester had Ohio State ranked #1 ; Missouri ranked #2 ; Kansas ranked #3 and lo and behold Oklahoma ranked #4? Not so fast my friend Oklahoma ranked #8. Oh well garbage in, garbage out and the other five computers were also a joke!  
It's not just Franchione hating on the Warriors. Three of their bottom four votes are from Big 12 schools. What the heck does the Big 12 have against the WAC?
Sorry, folks, but LSU is not the 2nd best, or best, team in the country. Right now USC, Oklahoma, VT, Kansas should be the top 4. GA & Fla lost too many games they shouldn't have, and LSU wouldn't beat any of those top 4. They would definitely not be VT again.
It should be about who has the best record AND is playing the best over the last few games (apologies to Hawaii, but you have to beat a quality opponent.)
Bobby Bowden is still bitter over the loss to Oklahoma in the 2000 Orange Bowl which decided the national champion! Or did the old duffer think his vote would never be public?
This article shows exactly why we need a playoff system.  Everyone complains about poor officiating, but look at the voting...good grief!  And this is how the polls are decided???
My rankings:
1. LSU
2. USC
3. Oklahoma
4. Georgia
5. OSU
6. Virginia Tech
7. Hawaii
8. Missouri
9. Florida
10.Kansas
What a year!  Upsets until I had to go take a coupla' Tums.  Who should be in the championship game?  Maybe the question should be, "why don't we have a playoff system?"  We'll never really know who's the best until then.  OSU, LSU, USC, and Oklahoma (maybe Hawaii, except they don't play anybody of consequence) will have "a shot" only through a playoff system. Otherwise, we're stuck with biased opinions all over the map.  By the way, Schnellenberger's disparagement of OU can be explained by recalling that he was run off from the school after being a complete flop as a coach. I rest my case.
Hovedman
Garland, Texas
First allow me to say that i also am a Sooner fan,who feels like LSU is in the title game based on their past accomplishments not on anything that they did this year.  They don't belong in this game. And even though i am a Sooner fan Coach (Big Game Bob) Stoops hasn't lived up to his billing since his brother Mike left him before he lost to LSU,(Hmmm) in a title game just a few years ago.    
isn't it about time to let the teams settle the ratings issue on the field with a playoff system
instead of letting the media decide? Must be that all the other NCAA sports have it all wrong.
Keep this in mind OU can still win a share of the national championship if they beat WV convincingly and LSU beats OSU.  Remember the AP poll is not decided by the BCS championship.  It is once again its own separate poll.
Thank you Bob Stoops for voting OU # 1!!

I love this guy.

He is trying to use his vote as a hint or wink to everybody that...hey...you want this BCS system and let the media hype get LSU in than take this.

I love it.  Only thing better is when he runs up the score...which there are no rules for anywhere in the NCAA charter.

Anybody know why freshman from Texas Tech is on the Heisman ballot but the Freshman QB Bradford from Oklahoma is not?  Holds NCAA record, highest %, and team is in the Fiesta Bowl!

College Football + ESPN = Joke
The coaches poll and the BCS is totally ridiculous. there is no way that Missouri which only has two loses(to OU) didn't get in. that's not right at all!
Why can't the winners of each division and 2 other honorable mentions have a draw out of the hat playoff
with the winners advancing thru a draw to the championship game.  You could still use the smaller bowls for the first round and work your way up to the National championship game.  I know this sounds very simple, but if you don't win you division, you don't play in the Championship game AS IT SHOULD BE!!!  That would be a TRUE National Champion!
Coached don't even watch college football during the season (unless it is game film in their conference.  If you want an unbiased coaches poll, let every coach in the conference rate only their conference--wait, that's what conference play does.  AND THAT'S WHAT COACHES DO.  They shouldn't be responsible for anything else.  If it was a "retired" coaches poll that would be better.  
give bellotti a break - he' just following advice of pac 10 replay officials who have determined that missouri actually beat oklahoma (twice)
Hey Rick C. That book you say Nebraska wrote on Power and Speed. You all should go back and read that again. The game where USC Rolled into town was the only time Neb. made the national spotlight. My question for everybody is #1 Missouri loses to #9 Oklahoma and doesn't get a BCS bid. #2 West Virginia loses to unranked Pitt and makes a BCS bowl? Can anybody...I MEAN ANYBODY...other than a WV homer, explain that to me?
Facts are facts. LSU is the best team in the country.  It is evident by their schedule and the ranked teams they beat all year  including Virginia Tech, Tennessee, Alabama, Florida, Auburn, South Carolina while losing in triple overtime to two ranked teams Arkansas and Kentucky.  At the end of the day there were still four ranked teams, two currently in the top ten that they beat.  So all in all, LSU has played at any given time 8 ranked teams during the year and undoubtably had the toughest schedule of any team.  Way to go SEC.....
I didn't have a problem with the votes Stoops put in except the fact he placed LSU lower than V-Tech. I put LSU #1, but you could make an argument for why they belong lower. The head to head matchup is my only complaint. Placing Mizzou and Kansas above Oklahoma is a joke. What the hell's in Howard's pipe, anyway? Have another drink, Schmelly.
LSU in the title game?  No way.  They only scored one offensive TD on Tennessee and did not look like the #2 team in the land.  Not sure I have them in the top 10.
I have a perfect way to settle who is the best team.

Let's say you have a bunch of guys who play this thing... this sport, and I have a bunch of guys who play the same... sport. Let's call them players. We take our players and head out to a field. Maybe we could come up with a set of rules we both agree on (you know, 4 "plays" to get... what... let's say 10 yards), and ways that our "players" can "score." After a pre-determined length of time we both agree on, we determine whose "players" have "scored" more. Those "players" are declared better. But we need a word for that... "better"... "better"...

Got it. Those "players" who "scored" more are declared the "winners."

Do you like it? I know this is something of a novel concept, actually "playing" the game, but it has proven absolutely fool-proof in millions of other contests, so I thought it would work here.

Then, if we have a bunch of groups of "players"... um... "teams" we'll call them... if we have a bunch of teams that want to know who is the "winner," we can put them in a tree-like structure. The "team" that "wins" plays another "team" who also "won," until there is only one "team" that has "won."

A tree-like structure... I know. Kind of clumsy. Let's call it a "bracket."

We put these "teams" in a "bracket"...

(Honestly, you'd think that the old-money in college football had never heard of how to determine a winner. Not a "winner" but a winner.)
Why is a vote from Florida coach Urban Meyer not recorded. Is he not one of the voters? Did he refrain from voting? How does the system work?
Well Tim, one of those teams would probably lose to a Div IAA team and screw everything up.

OSU has a chance to prove that it works.  They win, then there is some sense.  Blaming the coaches poll & the BCS for Missouri's shun is ignorant, blame the Rose Bowl committee, they made that decision.
Schnellenberger still is peeved that he got canned from OU after one year, even though he was about to completely drive the program into the ground. Belotti is mad cause he got beat three times by OU (counting the game Gordon Reece handed to them at Oregon) in recent years, and it appears that the Bowdens are holding on to beating they took in the national championship year. It is ridiculous that they voted like that, it was all personal. Any coach who does garbage like that should be stripped of a vote. I'd say the same if Stoops did it, but at least you can make an argument for LSU being 6th, not a strong one granted, but you can.
Yes, as it stands the various ranking of CFB teams and the crowning of the MNC is a joke, or well, a myth. My guess is that OU and USC are probably the two best teams in the country and should be playing for the title. The only good thing about the current "system" is that fans can make a case for many different teams and argue about it until next year.


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