ABOUT THIS BLOG

John Tamanaha

MSNBC.com contributor John Tamanaha tackles the hot topics in college football. From title contenders and Heisman hopefuls to coaches on the hot seat and recruiting battles, no issue is out of bounds.



'25 greatest' list rife with problems

Posted: Tuesday, December 11, 2007 11:57 PM

At first I thought it was a great idea. ABC’s plan to unveil the 25 greatest players in college football history seemed like it would provide interesting nuggets each week as the countdown inched toward revealing the top two players during the Rose Bowl broadcast on New Year’s Day.

 

When Ernie Nevers started it off at No. 25, I was even more encouraged.  College football has such a rich history and this process appeared to be destined for thoughtful selection and education. You knew it was going to be controversial, but I couldn’t help but think that this was going to be beneficial, especially for younger fans who may not be familiar with some of the legends of yesteryear.

 

Then it all changed.

 

No. 24 … Reggie Bush.  At that point, you got the feeling that this might be a disaster and little more than a hype meter.

 

Don’t get me wrong, Bush was an excellent college football player.  I’ll probably never forget watching him explode for 513 yards of total offense against Fresno State in 2005 (or his inexplicable lateral attempt in the 2006 Rose Bowl national championship game).  But if he’s going to be No. 24 and you’re going to set that kind of precedent, where do you go from there?

 

Was this going to be a parade of USC players along the way to the Rose Bowl broadcast that figured to have at least a 50-50 shot at featuring the Trojans?

 

Since it’s generally accepted that Bush is not quite in the same class as O.J. Simpson, Marcus Allen and maybe even Charles White, where were those dominating every-down USC tailbacks going to rank among the collegiate all-time Top-25?

 

And what about Matt Leinart? He didn’t just handoff to Bush (or LenDale White). Leinart quarterbacked USC to a 37-2 record, and has two national championships and one Heisman Trophy to his name.

 

I actually don’t see Leinart as one of the 25 best players in the history of the sport, but if Bush is on there, we’re talking about a different kind of list, one that he probably belongs on.  And the other Trojans tailbacks should be listed as well.

 

But how many Trojans can they have on this thing?  Three?  Four?  Five?  Out of 25?

 

In the end, none of them made it.

 

Here is ABC’s list so far:

 

3. Herschel Walker

4. Doak Walker

5. Sammy Baugh

6. Jim Thorpe

7. Tony Dorsett

8. Bo Jackson

9. Roger Staubach

10. Vince Young

11. Charles Woodson

12. Earl Campbell

13. Glenn Davis

14. Hugh Green

15. John Elway

16. Tom Harmon

17. Bronko Nagurski

18. Jim Brown

19. Dick Butkus

20. Charley Trippi

21. Archie Griffin
22. George Gipp

23. Johnny Rodgers
24. Reggie Bush

25. Ernie Nevers

 

There are lots of problems with this list. Omissions, inclusions, ordering, you name it. Too many to mention. I invite you to comment below and point them out. There are quite a few doozies.

 

I hate to spoil the fun, but to assist with that process … Red Grange is No. 1 and Barry Sanders is No. 2. Somebody in Bristol goofed and let the cats out of the bag. But once Herschel Walker was announced at No. 3, you pretty much already knew who was in the top two slots. Unless, of course, they went with O.J. (by far their biggest headache), which you knew was not going happen.

 

So in the end, there’s a “Rose Bowl upset” as two Illinois players are on ABC’s list (Dick Butkus joining Grange) and only one Trojan. At least that will brighten the day of Illini fans tuning in on what promises to be an otherwise disappointing start to the New Year.

MAIN PAGE

Email this EMAIL THIS

Comments

I don't see how Ricky Williams has been omitted from this entire list. Though he may have his current problems after college football, he still set the NCAA career rushing record in two years effectively. He only switched to tailback in his junior year. Watching highlights of him reminds you of how he took over the game by himself. Hiesman to his name don't forget. can't see how he isn't on the list at all...
As with most lists like this, they are lacking in defensive players...but even the defenders chosen (Hugh Green, Dick Butkus) seem out of place.  Dick Butkus was good in college, even great, but his pro career is where he really excelled.  There have been more dominant linebackers in the college game.  And Hugh Green was great, but even among his contemporaries, there were better defensive linemen.  Where is Leroy Selmon, e.g..
The greatest running back ever to play the game is number 18. The panel must be too young to remember Jim Brown. They should have asked those who had to tackle him.
What about Ron Dayne? Say what you will, he was a beast in college and oh yeah, HE IS THE ALL TIME LEADING RUSHER COLLEGE FOOTBALL HISTORY. Just because he didn't run "pretty" shouldn't mean he gets excluded. Ridiculous.
I whole-heartedly agree with Jeff. To exclude O.J. and Ricky clearly indicates that the list makers had their on personal agenda when compiling this list. That being the case, those omissions makes this exercise bogus and lacking any creditability
Naming Red Grange as #1 is absolutely correct and I give the listers huge kudos for getting that right, although, to me, there is no other possible choice.
I have two major problems with this list: At the very least Archie Griffin should be in the top five. Putting him at 21 is absurd. #2: Only one Notre Dame player on the list (George Gipp #22). I know ABC/ESPN can't stand ND because of it's ties to NBC, but this is ridiculous!!
Jim Brown @ #19 is absurdly low; no O.J. makes this list a farce - maybe they should just call it the top "politially corect" 25. And no linemen, offense, defense, or two-way? Give me a break.
Now of these guys would have made the list without some pretty darn good O-Lineman.  Where are they?
No Lee Roy Selmon?  The most dominant defensive player in CFB history.....
No Lee Roy Selmon?  Most dominant defensive player in college football history...
Don't think I would want to be the guy to tell Butkus or Brown there were 17 or 18 better football players.
i dont see how Archie Griffin (and no i'm not an Ohio State fan) is so low on the list the only two time heisman winner. #24?
Vince Young at number 10???? thats the dumbest thing ive ever heard. ridiculous
How is Archie Griffin rated so low? Isn't he the only 2-time Heisman winner? And Vince Young #10? If he doesn't beat USC, he doesn't even come close to this list.
ESPN/ABC is a joke.
Vince Young?  He played 3 years.  What about Joe Montana?  There are a lot of better NCAA qbs.  I think they just felt they had to add players of this era to the list and those are some that came to mind in a pinch.  I discredit this list completely.
Tommie Frazier?
I know he's a snake now, but OJ was the greatest running back in the last 50 years in college, so this list is just another bogus hype thing AND to not see one running QB or back from Oklahoma, we Nebraskans think they were slighted!
Not a single player for Oklahoma on the list.  What a joke.
You are going to have to do this by era!!!  Vince Young and some of the younger players haven't proven themselves in the NFL.  Where do you put Jim Taylor and Paul Hornung?  Joe Montana should be on the list...this is just too hard!  
Tommy Frazier, the greatest college QB of all time according to many reputable critics, is not on the list?  O.J. gone?  Charles Woodson #11?  What a croc.
When I saw ABC was making this list it was obvious to me it was a bad concept.  The problem is O J Simpson.  For the list to be a good one Simpson has to be on it.  But to have a list that honors O J Simpson to me is a bad list.  A problem that cannot be solved.  Bad idea from the start.  
I'm surprised that Marques Tuiasosopo didn't make it on the list. Yes, he did not win a Heisman or a National Championship but he did do something that no QB will probably ever do again and that is pass for 300+ yards and rush for 200+ in the same game. If it wasn't for the BCS's normal sheaninagans UW would've been playing for the National Championship.
No O.J?  Are they serious?  The greatest college runner of all time isn't on the list?  They shouldn't let the present mar his legacy as a player.  He belongs in the top 5.  As much as I feel Reggie is better than White or Allen, OJ was the best Tailback U has ever produced.
How in the Hell can you create a list like this and not include the likes of Walter Payton and Barry Sanders? I guess you have an idiot do it!
Jim Thorpe is #6?!! C'mon, give me a break! He was the best of the lot and there is not anything you can say to convince me otherwise. Nobody could tackle him, and he was a demon on defense during the two-way era. Jim Brown is also sadly devalued at #18. Reggie Bush does not belong on this list. O.J. Simpson should crack the top ten. Also, if Archie Griffin is #21, John Hicks should be on that list as well as Archie owed at least one of those Heisman's to Hicks. This list is all PR and lacks credibility.
If you wanted to put Ricky on the list then Ron Dayne would have to be ahead of him on the list for having broken his record the very next year, and if you look at the numbers if Dayne hadn't slumped in his second year Ricky would have never had the record. Personally I don't think either deserve to be on the list and am glad they didn't appear. I question John I never won a Bowl Game Elway being on the list.
How is Deion Sanders not on this list?
Lee Roy Selmon should be on that list.  Barry Switzer has said several times that he was the best player he ever coached.  But this list is biased toward offensive players.
As much as I like seeing some recent notibles added the "Top 25" list - ex. Vince Young and Reggie Bush. I do believe the list may be clouded with high profile athletes that did more for an impact of certain game endings rather then season, team, and career implications. I feel this list should have been comprised more of College Football Record Achievements, as well as, single player impacts that rocketed unknown teams into the spotlight. Barry Sanders with Oklahoma State, Ricky Williams with Texas, and for that matter O.J. Simpson with USC. Granted Barry Sanders WILL SURELY be ranked as #1 or #2 of the finalists named, but post college happenings should not be a criteria as the list is based on the player's college football career. Just my opinion!  
The most dominate offensive lineman to ever play the college game was Orlando Pace.  Mr. Pace should be somewhere in the top 25.
Are u kidding me v. young at #10!What did he do over a career?Not that much,if he doesn't beat usc he is not on this list. period
Jim Brown should be in the top 5 and Ernie Davis should crack the top 25....
No offensive linemen? No Dave Rimington, John Hannah or Tony Mandarich ('roids aside)? What a farce, just like the Heisman.
Woodson?

Seems they missed the mid-90's.  Tommy Frazier of the dominant Nebraska or Danny Wuerful should both be considered.
Vince Young is #10 are you kidding me!
I don't believe any recent player (Bush & Young) should be on a list such as this as their work hasn't been percolated by time.   I also disagree with Jim Brown being rated so low.  As great as he was in the Pros, he was just as good in college.
No matter what anyone thinks about him personally..O.J. Simpson was definitely one of the top 25 college players of all time. Don't forget Ted Hendricks either. Second to Spurrier in the Heisman voting as a defensive end and a three time All American at a time when freshmen did not play...  
Johnny Lujack...ND qb of three national championship teams..Heisman winner..and great 2-way player..he belongs in the top 25.

Unfortunately, many deserving players will be left off...especially linemen..so maybe it is artificial to pick 25 greatest.....probably should be 25 greatest at each position?
College Footballs 'rich and storied history' is as fraudulent as baseball's in that many of the celebrated players and teams played in a segregated era.  
From a PAC 8 fan as a kid, and still a big west football fan....
Agree about Bush, disagree about Leinart.
One shared national championship, one outright, and played for another but lost. You mentioned his won-loss record, he had great stats, and beat lots of out of conference big name schools. Name a QB in the past 40 years that can match him. He's better than any of the other QBs listed (maybe not Baugh).
I disagree with Archie Griffin being so low, 2 Heismans, the only guy to do it...he HAS to be higher. Also, John Elway doesn't belong, he's not even the best Stanford QB. Jim Plunkett won 2 Rose Bowls and a Heisman.
And what's with the "parade of USC" comment. Sounds like you got pre-set issues with football west of the rockies.
No way does John Elway even belong on the list!  They MUST have conflated his NFL career with his college days to get him on there.  There is no other explanation.  Consider that John Elway was a Heisman runner-up who set school and conference records but never played in a bowl game and whose most famous moment is being on the losing end of The Play.  Now contrast that with Ty Detmer who set school, conference, and NCAA records while leading BYU to bowl games, upset victories (Miami!), and who won a Heisman Trophy.  There is simply no way to justify Elway's presence and yet leave off Detmer who was in every way a superior NCAA QB.  NFL career is a whole different story but the list is COLLEGE players.  Chuck Long would also be a better selection than Elway.  He also finshed second in the Heisman but it was the closest vote ever.  Long also won big games against big opponents and set school records and won Maxwell and O'Brien awards.

There are some great RB that will be left off inevitably.  I notice that there isn't a single Oklahoma running back but so many to choose from: Steve Owens, Billy Vessels, Billy Simms, Joe Washington, and Greg Priutt to name a few.

Finally, there should be more defensive players but I'm not sure about Charles Woodson.  Tommy Nobis and Lee Roy Selmon would be more solid choices for this list.
Yea, they definately looked at Pro careers for a lot of these players. And to keep others off of it.  A major flop in the pros but perhaps the most dominating O-lineman ever was Tony Mandarich of MSU.  Still the highest ranking lineman in the heisman voting.

And yes guys like Ty Detmer, Andre Ware and the like were much better college players than Elway and others on that list.
Where are Jack Hamm & Jack Lambert ? Must be a bunch of newcommers slecting
I can't believe you left off the Heisman pose man, Desmond Howard who had one of the greatest seasons to include greatest catches for one season of any receiver on your list.
Where in the world is Derrick Thomas or John Hannah. I'm not saying that this list had to include both, but give Bama at least one. Derrick Thomas might be the best rush linebacker ever and John Hannah might be the best offensive lineman of all time. Of course I am an Alabama fan so I'm a little bias.  Like the writer of this article, when I saw Reggie Bush on this list I knew that it was baseless and worthless.  Reggie Bush is not in the top 1000 best college football players of all time.  Was he on the field when the championship was on the line against Texas? Oh yeah, John Elway never played in a bowl game. Great Pro good college player.
No Orlando Pace?
Orlando Pace? John Hannah? Charles White? Orenthal Simpson? Marshall Faulk? GALE SAYERS?????
What about Chad Lavolais of LSU?  He has to be one of the best defensive linemen in CFB history.
The player Bama should've had on this list is Don Hutson and there is no excuse for him not bieng on this list. Ozzie Newsome also was one of the most dominant TE's and changed the position to a recieving WE style does that not deserve a spot? I don't want to even get started on defensive players, there are a LOT of defensive players left out. This list is way past a joke. It's EMBARRASING
No one even cared about Vince Young until his senior year and the only people that cared then were bandwagoners. This list can't even be considered rational with Young on there. Horrible decision.


SEND A COMMENT

PLEASE READ: All comments must be approved before appearing in the thread; time and space constraints prevent all comments from appearing. We will only approve comments that are directly related to the blog, use appropriate language and are not attacking the comments of others.

Message (please, no HTML tags. Web addresses will be hyperlinked):