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John Tamanaha

MSNBC.com contributor John Tamanaha tackles the hot topics in college football. From title contenders and Heisman hopefuls to coaches on the hot seat and recruiting battles, no issue is out of bounds.



Pac-10 not as good as its bowl showing

Posted: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 6:49 PM

Poised to improve to a perfect 5-0 in bowl games -- if USC runs past Penn State, as expected -- the leadership of the Pac-10 Conference has the champagne on ice and the spin ready to go.

After a frustrating 2008 regular season that included a steady stream of Pac-10 bashing, the league can’t wait to stick out its chest and say that it’s as tough as it ever was.

Arizona kicked the good times off by winning its first bowl game in 10 years, beating BYU, 31-21, in the Las Vegas Bowl. California followed up with a 24-17 victory over Miami (Fla.) in the Emerald Bowl. Then, it was Oregon outscoring Oklahoma State, 42-31, in the Holiday Bowl and Oregon State pitching a 3-0 shutout at Pittsburgh in the Sun Bowl.

Impressive, huh?  Well ... not really.

The current 4-0 record looks good, but what has the Pac-10 really proven?

Perhaps the biggest accomplishment was Arizona’s victory over BYU. That exacted a bit of revenge on the Mountain West Conference, which embarrassed the big brother Pac-10 on several occasions while building its impressive 9-5 record against “BCS teams.” Most will remember the infamous 59-0 victory the Cougars posted versus UCLA on Sept. 13, but that day also included a 36-28 New Mexico victory over Arizona and a stunning overtime win by UNLV over an Arizona State team that was ranked at No. 15 at the time.

That weekend -- which also featured a Cal loss at Maryland, Washington State getting blasted by Baylor, Washington absorbing a whipping from Oklahoma and Stanford losing to TCU -- set the tone for what would continue to be a down season in the Pac-10. Working within that unimpressive environment, USC found it impossible to get any respect and was kept on the perimeter of the national championship conversation ever since its loss to Oregon State a dozen days later.

Winning a handful of those non-conference games in September, would have been far more beneficial to the league than notching them in December. The winning ways this past week only go so far.

Cal’s victory over Miami would have been much more impressive if it didn’t come just across the bay in a baseball stadium.

Oregon passed the league’s toughest bowl test, riding Jeremiah Masoli’s outstanding performance to an impressive win over Oklahoma State. Beating a team from the Big 12 is something to write home about, but the Ducks didn’t face any of the teams that truly made it a special year for the Big 12. Of course, that’s not Oregon’s fault. The Pac-10’s incredibly weak bowl alliances are to blame for the league’s second-place team getting paired with the Big 12 South’s fourth-place squad. (With a new commissioner on the way, the Pac-10 really needs to work on its bowl partnerships. How about giving the people what they want and lining up something with the SEC one of these days?)

We don’t want to take anything away from the Oregon State defense, but the Pittsburgh offense looked as if it were far more concerned about getting out of El Paso on New Year’s Eve than getting remotely close to the end zone.

So ... if closing the gap with the MWC and proving that you’re better than the teams that finished fourth in the ACC Coastal and the Big 12 South are worth shouting about, then have at it.

The fact of the matter is that a 5-0 postseason record will only bring the Pac-10 to .500 (17-17) versus non-conference Football Bowl Subdivision teams. That’s what happens when your winning percentage in all non-conference games during the regular season ranks ahead of only the MAC, C-USA and Sun Belt.

Even though it ended with a flourish, 2008 was far from a vintage year in the Pac-10.

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Comments

I'll take the five wins regardless.  GO USC, GO DUCKS, GO BEAVS, GO BEARS, GO SUN DEVILS!!!

Paul Houck, Portland, OR (Sent Thursday, January 01, 2009 12:15 PM)

Please. When all is said and done, if USC prevails over Penn State the Pac-10 will be 5-0 and all of the above just page filler for your column.

Ed Seibold, Big Timber, Montana (Sent Thursday, January 01, 2009 12:39 PM)

You have got to be kidding...finishing with four(maybe five) bowl wins at the end of the season is a negative?  A win is a win...never underestimate your opponent.  Does that not make for a good story!!!  I recommend you change to the positive and maybe more bloggers will respond to your story.  

Richard North Pole, Alaska (Sent Thursday, January 01, 2009 1:12 PM)

Did the Pac-10 go 5-0 for no respect?  What does it take for those so jealous of the beautiful west coast to be appreciated.  I guess we should move the conference to the rust belt maybe or crime ridden south- east.  Yes, the west is best and they deal with the rest.

tod mascall, lebanon, OH (Sent Thursday, January 01, 2009 1:35 PM)

Once again the only team that beat the Trojans was a Pac 10 team.  I still don't think any other team in college football could beat them this year or last. But because of a BCS system that extremely favors the teams east of the Mississippi we will never know? Just so you know that I am not a Trojan fan I am a Duck season ticket holder.  We learned how bad the BCS was in it's 2nd year when it pick the Cornhuskers over the Ducks because we only lost to Stanford that year. And Nebraska is Nebraska even with 2 loses and a 2nd place finish in their league.

Tom VanCamp Brookings Oregon (Sent Thursday, January 01, 2009 1:37 PM)

Right... so if they lose they stink.

But if they win... they still stink.

Nice intellectual honesty.

Ed, Los Angeles, CA (Sent Thursday, January 01, 2009 1:43 PM)

You're right that it wasn't a vintage year for PAC10 football, but if I'm not mistaken, every team they've beaten in the post-season has been ranked well ahead of the team they were playing, so far. Improvement is measured as the year goes on. Those earlier victories may have cost them ranking status, but I think it tells the tale that the PAC isn't quite as "weak" as you sportswriters like to contend. Now if SC finishes the sweep, it will taste all that much better.

Richard Bequette, Phoenix, AZ (Sent Thursday, January 01, 2009 2:08 PM)

There is nothing that the PAC-10 could ever do to impress the east dominated press.  We could be undefeated OOC, have six teams in the top 10, and you would still find a reason that the PAC-10 is weak.  The only way you would ever begin to sing our praises is if the entire conference packed up and moved east of the Mississippi.  Though I will agree that Hanson has not done the PAC-10 any good.

Greg Cole, Vancouver, WA (Sent Thursday, January 01, 2009 2:09 PM)

What's wrong?  Did you lose a bowl bet with your wife?  And how would a game be "more inmpressive" if it's not in a baseball stadium?

Spike Joseph, Springfield, OR (Sent Thursday, January 01, 2009 3:00 PM)

The author seems to fail at realizing that the wins by the Pac-10 have come when it really matters-bowl games. Yes the Pac-10 took a step backward this season but they won the bowl games. No other conference can say they were undefeated in bowl games (assuming USC beats Penn St.-most likely, have you seen that defense?).

If we belittle the bowl games won by the Pac-10 then the soft schedules of the Big 12 (before conference match-ups) and SEC need to be considered soft.

Pac-10 not the greatest season but still a very good conference.

Ryan, Gainesville, FL (Sent Thursday, January 01, 2009 3:00 PM)

This is typical reporting for someone who does not actually watch the teams they talk about. I encounter these people quite often as they struggle to find some way to place a bad light on a conference whether it is the underrated Pac10 this year or another conference. There were a couple really bad teams that brought the perception of the Pac10 down but the top 5 teams can put a good showing against any ranked team and as we have seen can win.

Mike Oda, San Francisco,CA (Sent Thursday, January 01, 2009 3:05 PM)

Hey, one reason they are only .500 is they play by far the toughest out of conference schedule. I don't see other conferences playing as many games against teams like Penn St, Ohio State, Oklahoma, etc.

Dano (Sent Thursday, January 01, 2009 3:07 PM)

Hey sir, enough with your Eastern, holier than thou snobbery. Yes the Pac-10 didn't beat one of the big boys, but the big boys don't think much of the Pac-10. To them, it's USC and the Nine Dwarves.

Josh Normand, Seattle, WA (Sent Thursday, January 01, 2009 3:24 PM)

You might have mentioned that Oregon States two best offensive players didn't play due to injuries.  One was the pac 10's best offensive player of the year.

Jim Gilmore, Portland, OR (Sent Thursday, January 01, 2009 3:34 PM)

Your bias comments against the Pac 10 demonstrate perfectly why we need to decide college football championships on the field through a playoff system. Championships should never be influenced by the opinion of weasly little sports writers who have never play football a day in their lives!

Hugh Killmeyer (Sent Thursday, January 01, 2009 3:52 PM)

Your bias comments against the Pac 10 demonstrate perfectly why we need to decide college football championships on the field through a playoff system. Championships should never be influenced by the opinion of weasly little sports writers who have never play football a day in their lives!

Hugh Killmeyer, Klamath Falls, OR (Sent Thursday, January 01, 2009 3:53 PM)

Ok, get out ahead of USC win and try to down play the accomplishment.  Eventhough, three of the five wins were against teams rated higher in the polls.

MITbeaver, Mandeville, LA (Sent Thursday, January 01, 2009 3:59 PM)

Tamanaha's bias does not surprise me.  He knows the Pac-10 is a top (or even) the top conference and would like to downplay it.  His arguments included losses by the lowest ranked Pac-10 teams at the beginning of the season.  One of those was Washington and the other Washington State who between themselves only beat one other team.

The top half of the Pac-10 are the best in the nation and all have one their bowl games.  The Pac-10 sent half their teams and all of them have won.  They all beat quality teams as well (Oklahoma St., BYU, Pittsburgh, Miami).  Today we will even find out if USC (probably the top team in the nation) will beat Penn St. with each having only one loss.  USC's only loss came to another top ranked Pac-10 team.  If there is another conference whose top 5 teams are better than the Pac-10 then I have yet to see it!!

Derin, Scottsdale, AZ (Sent Thursday, January 01, 2009 4:15 PM)

Tamanaha's bias does not surprise me.  He knows the Pac-10 is a top (or even) the top conference and would like to downplay it.  His arguments included losses by the lowest ranked Pac-10 teams at the beginning of the season.  One of those was Washington and the other Washington State who between themselves only beat one other team.

The top half of the Pac-10 are the best in the nation and all have one their bowl games.  The Pac-10 sent half their teams and all of them have won.  They all beat quality teams as well (Oklahoma St., BYU, Pittsburgh, Miami).  Today we will even find out if USC (probably the top team in the nation) will beat Penn St. with each having only one loss.  USC's only loss came to another top ranked Pac-10 team.  If there is another conference whose top 5 teams are better than the Pac-10 then I have yet to see it!!

Derin, Scottsdale, AZ (Sent Thursday, January 01, 2009 4:15 PM)

John

You're missing the bigger point that what football teams do in September is no more important than what baseball teams do in April or May.  We judge all sports champions(except college football) by how they end the season, not what they do at the beginning. That's why a play-off is the only way we will ever get a true college football champion.  Maybe USC is the best football team, but we'll never know because it was held against them that they played in the "weak" Pac 10.

Gary McAuley (Sent Thursday, January 01, 2009 4:55 PM)

Continue the bias.  Why don't we ask other conferences if they would like the Pac-10's weak bowl schedule?  Seems that you, as well as other, always look for a reason to put the Pac-10 down.  Yet you and your ilk have no problem propping up Ohio St. or any SEC team based only on their reputation.

The above is why Ohio St. got blown out in two straight championship games, Nebraska went to the Championship game instead of Oregon after Nebraska lost to Colorado in the last game of the season, and the Pac-10 continues to get no respect.

I bet you still think Detroit is Joey Harrington's fault?

Iamjoecollector, Salem, Oregon (Sent Thursday, January 01, 2009 5:40 PM)

Thank you VERY much! Its great to hear the voice of reason amidst all of the unwarranted hype of ANY team in the Lac 10. USC is good but NOT great and if they were in the SEC or the Big 12 South, they'd be playing in the Holiday Bowl! Heck they were the MWC B---h!So go Play someone when Lac 10 officials aren't in control of the game, then you can talk. Until then just shut your mouth and take up knitting.

John - Tulsa Okla. (Sent Thursday, January 01, 2009 5:40 PM)

"Working within that unimpressive environment, USC found it impossible to get any respect and was kept on the perimeter of the national championship conversation ever since its loss to Oregon State a dozen days later."  Sounds like more whining from another "University of Spoiled Children" alum!  If the rest of the Pac-10 is so unimpressive, why'd USC lose to OSU?  Were the player's paychecks late that week?  You really should reveal your affiliations when you make these biased comments John.  

Signed, a Stanford alum (see, I admit MY biases!)

MCSchaeffer (Sent Thursday, January 01, 2009 5:54 PM)

How dare you!!!!!  You aren't fit to hold any of the PAC 1o teams jock straps....MORON!!!!

ah sv ca (Sent Thursday, January 01, 2009 6:05 PM)

5 bowl games and 5 wins. Man they're really bad. Sure wish they could lose bowl games like that powerhouse Big 10. Who's the Big 10 Champion? Oh yeah, the nittany kitties. Or Michigan State and their fine bowl loss, so uncharacteristic to their regular season play. Oh whoops, California beat them in the regular season too. Bowl wins against BYU, the Big 10, the Big 12, Big East and the ACC. Lots to apologize for. Or maybe the writer ought to apologize for picking such a bogus topic. Have a nice trip back to Happy Valley....

Roger Smith, Napa, California (Sent Thursday, January 01, 2009 6:52 PM)

Another season ends and another East Coast Sports Writer xpurt once again puts down the Pac 10. Happens every year...why is that?

R. Streiff Grants Pass, Oregon (Sent Thursday, January 01, 2009 7:28 PM)

The Pac-10 defeated Oklahoma State (who, from the hype surrounding the BigXII South this year, was otherwise a top 10 team)... Penn State is pretty darn impressive.  BYU is a team that's always very good (and they were defeated by, easily, the worst Pac10 team in the bowls).  Miami... eh, they honestly aren't that great, but Cal DID play with their weak-link on offense (Longshore), and vastly under-used Jahvid Best.  Pitt had a pretty good year on all sides of the ball, and they were COMPLETELY smothered by an OSU team missing their best offensive weapons (and a consistently inept quarterback).

I don't know how great these teams really are, but I do think it's a bit disingenuous to consider the poor start during the regular season in out-of-conference games, yet completely ignore the bowls.  The WHOLE conference improved over the course of the season (except Washington)... it was shown in the bowl games.  

As it is, I do think it's funny that I never see this sort of article when the SEC or BigXII has a great bowl season.  And I guarantee 80% of THEIR opponents aren't ranked going into the bowls, as was the case with the Pac10's opponents this year.

Nick, Oregon (Sent Thursday, January 01, 2009 7:35 PM)

Concealing the facts makes it far easier to make your point, doesn't it?

Fact is, Pac-10 teams, after USC's blowout of Penn State, have beaten the #6, #13, #17 and #18 teams in the nation.

That's impressive. No other conference can claim to say anything close to that. But it's hard to go back on your waffling opinion, isn't it? So you mumble and stutter and point out that the wins "weren't impressive" and that in the early weeks of the season, teams lost to teams they shouldn't have.

Bowl games express the epitome of a team's growth at the end of the season, when they have truly found their identity. If injuries don't occur (like they did to 50$ of the Oregon State offense, James and Jacquizz Rodgers, a fact you seemed to have forgot), it's the only true way to express how good a team truly is and how smart their coaches are.

And guess what? The Pac-10 has been nothing short of dominant. The record tells the real story.

Justin R, Corvallis, Oregon (Sent Thursday, January 01, 2009 8:33 PM)

As is is often said: "That's why they play the games."  This idiotic commentary is like saying the Philadelphia Phillies were swept by the Los Angeles Dodgers 4 - 0 at Dodger Stadium earlier in the season, so they must not deserve to be World Series Champions.  Or that the Boston Celtics, going 1 - 3 on their West Coast swing this week, aren't worthy of being NBA Champs when they hoist their second straight trophy next June.

The PAC-10 teams earned their way into the postseason bowls, and then they ran the table on everyone else.  Their records earned them the right to beat every other league's team the way they did in the bowls.  Their post-season record speaks for itself.

Patrick Kittell, Orlando (Sent Thursday, January 01, 2009 8:35 PM)

PAC-10 is weak, all they have is USC.

Bartman, OK (Sent Thursday, January 01, 2009 8:41 PM)

Not impressive?  Why, because it isn't your almighty SEC?  Come on.  Look at the hype machines that fell to the PAC:  BYU, Penn State, Miami (perpetual hype machine), Pitt (that whole conference is all hype), and of course Oklahoma State, the adorable Big-12 underdog that could.  Get over your east coast bias, and stay up a little later, watch a few pac-10 games, and maybe take a remedial journalism class.  

Every conference was not its usual self, or we wouldn't have had so many 6-6 teams in bowls, even when there are 15-20 more than there should be.

I'm sure I could find a statistic to support any cock-eyed theory as well, but the fact of the matter is that the bowl conference record belongs to the Pac-10 this year.  As a "sports journalist," you are the species that loves to say "what have you done LATELY?"  Well, the Pac-10 put up, so now you can shut up.

KH, Spokane, WA (Sent Thursday, January 01, 2009 8:54 PM)

Also, keep in mind that two teams, UW and WSU, account for half those losses.  Also note how few FCS teams there are in the pac-10 schedule compared to other BCS conferences.  Geez do your stinkin homework!!!

KH, Spokane, WA (Sent Thursday, January 01, 2009 8:59 PM)

Opinions like your are like.... You get the message.

Dr.Pac 10 (Sent Thursday, January 01, 2009 9:09 PM)

Run the tables in December, and still no respect?  In spite of the fact that we carried two of the worst teams in the FBS.  Notre Dame pastes Hawaii after getting shut down by the Trojans and the men of Troy still get your scorn?  If the Utes, who barely got by the Beavers, manage to top 'Bama will you show some love for the PAC-10?

I agree with many that the PAC-10 should become the PAC-12 and add a championship game.  I think that Utah and BYU would make a good addition as they are both good schools academically, have good football programs, and have an established in state rivalry.  But even without expanding the PAC-10 is a strong conference and deserves respect.

Edward, Corvallis OR (Sent Thursday, January 01, 2009 9:19 PM)

Have a great big bowl of sour grapes on me.

John Doe, Seattle, Wash (Sent Thursday, January 01, 2009 9:26 PM)

Okay so the bottom half of the PAC-10 looked bad against some of the better non-BCS schools.  Looking just at won/lost records between the schools of the major conferences throughout the entire season, only the SEC has a chance for a better winning percentage than the PAC-10.

Larry B, Springfield, Mo (Sent Thursday, January 01, 2009 9:29 PM)

Give me a break! If this was the SEC or the Big 12, you would be so excited you couldn't control yourself.

Mike Schneider (Sent Thursday, January 01, 2009 9:45 PM)

Typical bashing from the east coast!

Frank Fullerton California (Sent Thursday, January 01, 2009 10:07 PM)

Actually, I would say the Pac-10 wasn't as bad as the season may have indicated, but I guess it's all about whether or not you have a particular bias for or against the Pac-10. It doesn't suprise me that John is trying to tarnish a darn good Pac-10 bowl season.

Andy G (Sent Thursday, January 01, 2009 10:12 PM)

Yall over at the East coast Sports Propaganda  Network can say whatever you like, but the Pac-10 won the trophy this year for being the best all around conference in the country (being undefeated in bowl season) if you recall... so all your little qualifications don't matter. Its official, the pac-10 was the best this year. Thats not to say it has the best team in college football, only to say it is the greatest conference.

Bill, Houston, Texas (Sent Thursday, January 01, 2009 10:21 PM)

BS Why cant all those great teams back east beat west coast teams at the end of the season?
Better conditioning on the west coast is the answer

bill roseville ca. (Sent Thursday, January 01, 2009 10:27 PM)

I believe USC will play either Florida (which will win the national championship) Okie or Texas TOMORROW and beat any one of them. I don't know where John T. gets his info, but maybe he should spend a little more time on the West coast!!! East coast bias for every sport.  

Steve (Sent Thursday, January 01, 2009 10:30 PM)

Year after year we hear this sort of thing:  Weak conference.....USC and the seven dwarves........all offense, but no defense.  It is SO old and also, so false!  If east coasters would take some time to REALLY pay attention to the Pac Ten teams, they would come to the realization that this conference is the real deal.  Bring on the SEC.  Pac Ten fans welcome the challenge and maybe then, finally, the rest of the nation would give us a little R E S P E C T !!!!!!

Anne, Tigar, OR (Sent Thursday, January 01, 2009 10:47 PM)

What a stupid post - USC is the best team in the land. The Pac 10 did win all 5 bowl games, often against teams higher ranked in the polls. What that all proves is the polls and most so called sports writers have an East Coast - Southeast bias.

Oaktown Charlie (Sent Thursday, January 01, 2009 11:08 PM)

What? Look, by any measurement, the PAC10 is the toughest conference n the country. In post season play, they are 5 and 0, the best record for any league. Your blathering aside, THAT is all the proof that is necessary to justify USC being the National Champion with Oregon ranked no further down the list at number 5. If it weren't for the constant East Coast bias of sports writers, USC WOULD have have played for the championship and Oregon would have played in a BCS bowl ... and both teams would have demolished their opponents.  

Mike Brooks, Eugene, Oregon (Sent Thursday, January 01, 2009 11:35 PM)

The guy from Oklahoma says the PAC-10 is weak and that SC is the only legit team in the conference.  Hey, pard, does 45-35 ring a bell for you?  Why the hell is Oklahoma playing for the national championship?  Texas ran your butts off the field. Kinda like what the Ducks did to you a few years back.  Yeah, yeah, yeah and wah, wah, wah.  We've all heard the crying about the refs.  Fact is, bud, tears and all, you lost.

Vince, Florence, Oregon (Sent Friday, January 02, 2009 12:22 AM)

What??  Five bowl victories and the Pac-Ten is not very good?  Sounds like you like to fall into that East-Coast bias and underestimate The conference of champions once again.  OK, a sub-par showing in non-conference games in preseason didnt help the Pac-10, but considering the post season outcome, The Pac has gained most, if not all,of its swagger back.  Take Oklahoma State; played Texas to a five point loss.  Take Penn St; only loss prior to Rose Bowl was a one point blunder in a tough conference battle.  Take BYU; at one point early in the season, voters had them picked to finish undefeated and in a BCS game.  Take Pitt and Miami; both rebuilding perinial power house teams respectavely in their conferences that both were picked to win their bowl games against the Pac-10.  So in conclusion, watch out for USC, Oregon, Oregon State and Cal next year.  
GO DUCKS!!  <what a hit on that poor oklahoma QB-OUCH!!>

Todd Roberts, Eugene, Or (Sent Friday, January 02, 2009 12:44 AM)

GO DUCKS!!!  
Poor Oklahoma QB who got the HURT put on him1 Hit of the year!!!

Todd Roberts, Eugene, Or (Sent Friday, January 02, 2009 12:45 AM)

This author seems to think that regular season games pairing TOP HALF teams from other conferences with BOTTOM HALF teams from the PAC-10 is a better measure than bowl games paring top-half teams from each conference.  So BYU (#3 in Mountain West) beat 10th place Washington and 8th place UCLA, then, when they finally play a top-half PAC-10 team (#5 Arizona), they get BEAT.  And this all adds up in the mind of John Tamanaha as a negative for the PAC-10.  Interesting logic.  -- I was at the game where #1 Mountain West Utah beat #3 PAC-10 Oregon State, and it took a miracle for Utah to win that game at home.  Those teams were evenly matched, and it was #1 MWC vs. #3 PAC-10.  I'm sure John thinks that indicates the PAC-10 is inferior too.  

Tim (Sent Friday, January 02, 2009 12:45 AM)

Ok, so apparently a win in a football stadium is more valuable than a baseball stadium, where do dual use facilities fit in this hierarchy and will the BCS factor that into their computers next year?  

See, this is why championships are supposed to be decided on the field, not voted on by morons like you.

Michael (Sent Friday, January 02, 2009 12:47 AM)



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