Pac-10 not as good as its bowl showing

Posted: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 6:49 PM

Poised to improve to a perfect 5-0 in bowl games -- if USC runs past Penn State, as expected -- the leadership of the Pac-10 Conference has the champagne on ice and the spin ready to go.

After a frustrating 2008 regular season that included a steady stream of Pac-10 bashing, the league can’t wait to stick out its chest and say that it’s as tough as it ever was.

Arizona kicked the good times off by winning its first bowl game in 10 years, beating BYU, 31-21, in the Las Vegas Bowl. California followed up with a 24-17 victory over Miami (Fla.) in the Emerald Bowl. Then, it was Oregon outscoring Oklahoma State, 42-31, in the Holiday Bowl and Oregon State pitching a 3-0 shutout at Pittsburgh in the Sun Bowl.

Impressive, huh? Well ... not really.

The current 4-0 record looks good, but what has the Pac-10 really proven?

Perhaps the biggest accomplishment was Arizona’s victory over BYU. That exacted a bit of revenge on the Mountain West Conference, which embarrassed the big brother Pac-10 on several occasions while building its impressive 9-5 record against “BCS teams.” Most will remember the infamous 59-0 victory the Cougars posted versus UCLA on Sept. 13, but that day also included a 36-28 New Mexico victory over Arizona and a stunning overtime win by UNLV over an Arizona State team that was ranked at No. 15 at the time.

That weekend -- which also featured a Cal loss at Maryland, Washington State getting blasted by Baylor, Washington absorbing a whipping from Oklahoma and Stanford losing to TCU -- set the tone for what would continue to be a down season in the Pac-10. Working within that unimpressive environment, USC found it impossible to get any respect and was kept on the perimeter of the national championship conversation ever since its loss to Oregon State a dozen days later.

Winning a handful of those non-conference games in September, would have been far more beneficial to the league than notching them in December. The winning ways this past week only go so far.

Cal’s victory over Miami would have been much more impressive if it didn’t come just across the bay in a baseball stadium.

Oregon passed the league’s toughest bowl test, riding Jeremiah Masoli’s outstanding performance to an impressive win over Oklahoma State. Beating a team from the Big 12 is something to write home about, but the Ducks didn’t face any of the teams that truly made it a special year for the Big 12. Of course, that’s not Oregon’s fault. The Pac-10’s incredibly weak bowl alliances are to blame for the league’s second-place team getting paired with the Big 12 South’s fourth-place squad. (With a new commissioner on the way, the Pac-10 really needs to work on its bowl partnerships. How about giving the people what they want and lining up something with the SEC one of these days?)

We don’t want to take anything away from the Oregon State defense, but the Pittsburgh offense looked as if it were far more concerned about getting out of El Paso on New Year’s Eve than getting remotely close to the end zone.

So ... if closing the gap with the MWC and proving that you’re better than the teams that finished fourth in the ACC Coastal and the Big 12 South are worth shouting about, then have at it.

The fact of the matter is that a 5-0 postseason record will only bring the Pac-10 to .500 (17-17) versus non-conference Football Bowl Subdivision teams. That’s what happens when your winning percentage in all non-conference games during the regular season ranks ahead of only the MAC, C-USA and Sun Belt.

Even though it ended with a flourish, 2008 was far from a vintage year in the Pac-10.

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Comments

USC beat Penn State at home by a few points... Big deal. I would love to see USC play a late November game in 30 degree weather.

The North (Sent Friday, January 02, 2009 1:04 AM)

You want some whine with that nerdy cheese you just served up? Bottom line, the Pac-10 may have had an off year, but they are still woefully underrated every year. Funny, but if I remember right, the PAC-10 is 9-6 against the mighty SEC since 2000. Let's not forget they also play full 1-A schedules, unlike the SEC which counts games against high school (uh,1-AA) teams as wins on their schedule. Is there any doubt that the SEC loving press has the best team in the nation ranked at #5 this year? USC would destroy Oklahoma! I sincerely wish the PAC-10 played the SEC every year. I am extremely confident the press darlings of the south would lose their reputation very quickly.

cmac (Sent Friday, January 02, 2009 1:22 AM)

Yes, I know that the other winning OOC records by the Big 12, SEC, ad nauseum show how great those respective conferences are. Heck, those are some mighty impressive wins blowing out such college football powerhouses as Chattanooga and The Citadel.

I agree with other posters that the PAC-10 will never get any respect no matter what. The PAC-10 can schedule and go undefeated against conference champs in the other big six conferences, win the national title and all other BCS Bowls invited to and the east coast biased media will concentrate more on how the east coast teams "lost" their games rather than the PAC-10 teams having won it.

Admittedly ,this wasn't a banner year for the PAC, but I think they got redemption in their bowl games.

John Akimoto (Sent Friday, January 02, 2009 1:28 AM)

Dude, you are retarted. 5-0 > any other bowl record. 4 wins against ranked teams = impressive.

John (Oakland) (Sent Friday, January 02, 2009 2:00 AM)

5 and O in bowl games is 5 and O! That would make John T. an O. The problem with the east coast view is that defense in the PAC ten is so formidable and fast that it distorts the view of the offense in the PAC. It is like they say it is one thing to have good players and another to play good. If you look at shear physicality of PAC ten teams in these 5 games on defense it is no wonder that a short QB from Oregon should have a SUV pick up truck named after him as how many Oklahoma State defense players got run over? What is so bad about east coast bias is the people in the west watch east coast football on Saturday morning and Thursday night, but east coast guys are fast asleep when the best games are on TV.
They do play some good ball back east, but we watch more games than you do, and if you look at USC or Oregon or CAL or any of them it shows.
Statistically go look up how many SNAPS the OREGON defense faced this year, and how long they spent on the field. If you add it up I think you will find it is about double the national average and might be close to 1000. Look at USC stats....

JR Tucson (Sent Friday, January 02, 2009 2:21 AM)

I guess we know who pays your check. Really uninspired effort here. Its columns like this that perpetuate the sham that is college football bowl season. Congratulations, you're part of the problem.

James Portland Oregon (Sent Friday, January 02, 2009 3:31 AM)

So according to the author's argument, for a conference to be considered good, it has to have a stellar year? Doesn't a stellar year culminate in the bowl games? It shouldn't matter how well a team/conference starts, it matters how well they end it.

As another poster has said:
"Fact is, Pac-10 teams, after USC's blowout of Penn State, have beaten the #6, #13, #17 and #18 teams in the nation." Is it a fluke that a supposed "weak" conference did this? Give credit where credits due. Pac-10 might not be the best conference, but don't belittle their accomplishments.

Jared Lee, Los Angeles, CA (Sent Friday, January 02, 2009 3:40 AM)

you're an idiot, winning games makes you weak, losing games makes you weak, why don't you talk about the population centers of the united states and how the west (outside of california) doesn't interest poor sports writers enough to get good press, but yeah, you have a good point, 5-0 in bowls is nothing, a winning record against the SEC since the bcs began is meaningless, we'll listen to you instead, because you say so, you downplay oregon states win when half of their offensive production didn't play in the game, face it, you are a poor writer and the reason college football suffers, give us a playoff and then we don't have to listen to idiotic voices that tell us what our eyes just say wasn't real

JFL from Portland, Oregon (Sent Friday, January 02, 2009 3:53 AM)

This guy isn't just a tool, he's the whole tool shed. Utterly ignorant article John Tamanaha. What does a 59-0 beating of UCLA prove? Absolutely nothing. Wow, BYU beat 0-Dub, er U-Dub, the worst BCS Conference team ever in the BCS era by 1 point on a missed PAT. That speaks worse of BYU than of the Pac-10 my friend. And Baylor beat the second worst team ever in WSU, hip hip hurray... That sure shows how weak the Pac-10 is. Furthermore, if Utah is as "Great" as projected, why did they have to come from behind in the last 2 min to beat Oregon State AT HOME? And why is a win over Arizona State considered so "great", ASU sucked this year. You cherry-picked your info, what a surprise.

Facts are facts: Pac-10 BOWL TEAMS just went 5-0 in Bowl games, and 4 of the teams those Pac-10 teams beat were ranked. OSU won while missing 2 guys who provided 50% of their offense (you know, the 2 Rodgers Brothers). Lesean McCoy had 88 yds on 26 carries aginst their D...

"Winning a handful of those non-conference games in September, would have been far more beneficial to the league than notching them in December."
This is moronic at best, winning in December in a bowl game is more important, period. Remember how impressive we thought Alabama's win over Clemson was at the beginning of the year? Yea, it was impressive until everyone figured out that Clemson wasn't very good... And their coach got fired. Point being, beating teams who are a known comodity at the end of the year is MUCH more important.

Finally, 4 of the teams you sited as your "proof" were not good, period. UCLA, ASU, WSU and 0-Dub had a total of ZERO wins between them aginst the 5 Pac-10 Bowl Teams... And those are the teams you are siting as the reasoning behind the Pac-10 sucking.

Finally, that 17-17 nonconference record you site came aginst a total of 2 FCS schools, and 19 of those teams were ranked when the Pac-10 played them and 17 of those 19 were STILL ranked going into their bowl games. Hogwash article.

Go back to your SEC fantasy-land.

Justin, Beaverton OR (Sent Friday, January 02, 2009 5:53 AM)

In my book USC is #1 and has won 4 straight Rose Bowls
The whole nation including the refs saw Young pitch the ball from his knees but would not call it. I stay up late to watch the Pac Ten football.

Richard Foster, Aurora, new york (Sent Friday, January 02, 2009 6:55 AM)

Congrats to USC for beating another Big-10 team. If Texas does the same to Ohio State, and what Georgia did to Michigan ... all this proves is not the greatness of USC but the weakness of the Big 10. There is no question that Pete Carroll is a great coach and USC is a great team.

But look at the quality of the PAC-10! From top to bottom ... there is not much week to week challenge for USC to prove how truly great they are or can be! There is no question that the "toughest" on a year to year basis is the Southeastern Conference. Can USC play an SEC schedule on a week to week basis be as good as they are?

Yes, I admit that the SEC had a down year, but nonetheless, they still have a team in the national championship game. Should Florida beat Oklahoma, that would be three consecutive years that that conference has won a national championship. If not, that would be two of the last three years it has won a national championship.

Yes Carroll may have a 82-9 record in his tenure at USC but ... he would not be able to accomplish this if he had to play Oklahoma, Texas, Texas Tech, or Florida, Alabama, Georgia, Tennessee, LSU on a regular basis.

USC is the best team in the West ... which doesn't say much! The PAC-10 and the Big 10, much to the dismay of there fans, needs to accept that they are the giants of the past not the present or the future!

The SEC, year-in and year-out, is where college football is really played! The Big 12 is a very close second. Yes we, the fans from the SEC are biased but it is because we can walk the walk after we talk the talk.

I firmly beleive that USC would not or could not beat the winner OR the loser of the Oklahoma-Florida game!

Greg Williams, Springfield, VA (Sent Friday, January 02, 2009 7:38 AM)

Your analysis doesn't make sense. What does playing the game in a baseball stadium have to do with winning the game?

V. Simmons, Corvallis, OR (Sent Friday, January 02, 2009 8:41 AM)

Note:The PAC 10 UNDEFEATED can any other conference claim the same Answer No. Now you'll have something RIGHT as we know the PAC 10 DOMINATED AND DESERVES RESECT. PAC 10 CONFERENCE CHAMPIONS now you'll have two things Right!!

Russell Nicolai Tigard OR (Sent Friday, January 02, 2009 9:05 AM)

Funny how you neglected to mention that the 0-fer Washington team came within a horrible call of taking BYU to OT. Don't let facts get in the way of the theory, I guess.

Face it- USC is the best team in the country, again, and they are shut out of the Championship in favor of at least one team that is going to absorb a blowout loss, again. The Pac 10 beats each other up every year, that's how we know our champion is a true champion. There are no easy games.

Tim Hamm, Spokane, WA (Sent Friday, January 02, 2009 9:06 AM)

Dear God, I saw a post from a clueless Oklahoma fan saying that the Pac 10 only has "USC" as the powerhouse. This after the Oregon Ducks decimated Oklahoma State in the Holiday Bowl! Are these people paying attention?

Back when Oregon was #2 in the 2001 season, they lost the chance to play in the national championship game thanks to the brilliantly lame BCS ranking system, and ended up having to play #4 Colorado, which had previously beat Oklahoma, who was playing in the national championship. LET'S ALL GIVE IT UP AND YELL A CHEER FOR EAST COAST WRITERS AND PUNDITS!

For your information, Oregon soundly beat Colorado in the Fiesta Bowl, that same team that beat the Oklahoma team playing in the national championship.

This disgusting unfairness was duly noted and has been carefully watched by all Pac 10 fans and teams since then. Now the big east "capitulates" and says only "USC" is worthy of playing any other conference outside the Pac 10, although the other four Pac 10 teams beat RATED conference teams, including the Ducks victory over Oklahoma State, using a third string quarterback.

Some of the TV commentators quipped that Oregon has consistently brought their high power offense to pummel opponents from other conferences in bowl game, and that Oregon's defense has provided some of the hardest hits for the "highlight reel" than any other team in the nation.

Yes, come play the Ducks, you Big 10, SEC, ACC, Big 12 posers. Regardless of what you "wish", the PAC 10 ends their season with an UNBEATEN BOWL GAME RECORD. (oh yes, ESPN gives out a trophy for this accomplishment).

The PAC 10 isn't some pansy conference. We play each other, and every team, save Washington teams, has performed well. Oregon Ducks don't get the 2nd highest scoring offense in the nation by sleeping in late on Saturdays.

It's time for the BCS and the Eastern coalition of biased sportswriters to consider the PAC 10 as a viable powerhouse of football teams that should have higher BCS rankings, until the smart money wins out and abolishes the BCS in favor of a bowl playoff system.

DucksRUle (Sent Friday, January 02, 2009 9:34 AM)

Only respectable wins were Oregon over OSU and USC over a mediocre PS, a team that OU, Texas, TT, Alabama or Florida could have beat playing only their second string.

Yawn.

Brian Peterson (Sent Friday, January 02, 2009 10:47 AM)

I used to live on the West Coast but since I left people seem to have lost perspective and drank the cool aid. I have never read so many responses to an op-ed article that seem to miss the point. I believe USC is the best team in the country. But that said the other Pac-Ten victories are against a MW team and two teams that finished fourth in their conferences. The PAC-10 bowl alliances are weak and the conference went under 500 out of conference. The author stated the truth the PAC-10 had an off year and the victories in the bowls while a statement can't change that fact. Besides, a strong and balanced conference does not have the same champion every year.

Mike Mackey, Piqua, Ohio (Sent Friday, January 02, 2009 10:57 AM)

I'll bet this column was actually written by Les Miles. Sounds like the same whiney crap to me.

Pac-10 Fan (Sent Friday, January 02, 2009 11:00 AM)

Yeah Tamanaha, you're right, the Mountain West and WAC are both tougher than the PAC-10 you moron. I'm not saying that we're the SEC or even the BIG-12 (despite Oregon's victory) but give me a break. If the PAC-10 won more than 100% of its bowl games this year would it be worthy of any respect then? Tools like you will always knock the PAC-10 no matter what it does so I'm not even sure why I'm writing this.

Jay Black, Albuquerque, New Mexico (Sent Friday, January 02, 2009 11:11 AM)

What the fans and alum of the PAC-10, who have never lived outside the region really don't get, is that it's Calfirornia, and Southern California specifically, that people like Tamanaha can't stand, it's not so much the conference. Every So Cal athletics fan, who knows what he or she is talking about, knows that Oregon is basically, Cal State North, just as UW was in the 80's, when it comes to the grid iron or hoops, same can be said of the Arizona schools, check the rosters. I recall this writers column of October 12, 2008 - "the ASU/USC game this weekend past was the least impressive 28-0 victory you’ll ever see" - Well, everyone said that Penn State was under rated and that they'd give the Trojans all they could handle. Make no mistake, Penn State is a class act, but our So Cal kids are better athletes, period. Long Beach Poly High School has put over 40 players in the NFL. USC has at lease one gold medalist in track & field in every summer Olympics since 1912....UCLA & USC: #'s 1 and 2 in Team National Championships....Show some respect John.

P.B.inLosAngeles (Sent Friday, January 02, 2009 11:14 AM)

Shakespeare had the number of folks like youngster John here. He doth protest too much. USC is clearly the premier football school in the US. In a few days they will complete 7 straight years rated 4 or above. Year after year USC is the cream but they have the hardest time winning in the PAC10. I live in Louisiana and year after year watch LSU get overrated by playing ULLafayette and other weak teams. Florida could compete with USC this year (not Oklahoma) USC has half their defense drafted last year and this year has the best defense in college football. Georgia Auburn Tennessee have an up year now and again-but seven straight. By the way, next year USC will have FOUR High School Players of the Year at quarterback.

Tom Estling Westlake LA (Sent Friday, January 02, 2009 11:15 AM)

Incredible! I have been hearing this eastern bias for 40 years and am amazed at how it can continue in spite of repeatedly being proven wrong. I guess it's like the discredited "supply-side economics theory" that keeps popping up, except that no one really gets hurt when ignorant columnists write their drivel. What NBC needs is a competent sports editor.
I paraphrase the famous composer Max Reger, "I'm sitting in the smallest room in my house. Your column is before me. Now it is behind me."

Robert Henderson, Wilson, WY (Sent Friday, January 02, 2009 11:40 AM)

USC is the best team in the country. Oklahoma wouldn't be able to come within two touchdowns of USC. In fact I question whether either Oklahoma or Texas could win against Oregon or Oregon State (with the Rogers brothers)The BCS is a joke and the Big 12 is overrated.

Jan Perkins Houston, Texas (Sent Friday, January 02, 2009 11:58 AM)

The PAC 10 deserves all the credit for this year's performance. 5-0 in bowl games is impressive. The Bowl Challenge Cup is won.
The Bowl Challenge Cup would more accurately reflect conference strength by taking each conference's win percentage in bowl games times the percentage of teams from the conference that play in bowl games. For example, 5 of 10 teams from the PAC 10 played in bowl games. The 100% win factor times the 50% participation factor (which brings in conference strength and ability to get to the post-season) = 50%. This is still a pretty high score. The ACC, the only other BCS conference with completed bowl play, has a 40% win factor and an 83% participation factor = 33%.

EW Schwertley, Louisville, KY (Sent Friday, January 02, 2009 12:02 PM)

Pretty much anybody can whip a patsy in their own back yard. I'd sure like to see the PAC 10 play some away games against the stronger teams in other conferences. I guess that is why Nebraska was chosen over Oregon and OU got the BCS championship game in 2004 and 2009. It is a case of "play up or go home" and the PAC 10 certainly did not "play up" during the regular season and then they played their bowl games in their own back yard. USC at home in the Rose Bowl, Cal across the Bay in San Fran, Arizona at Las Vegas, and Oregon in San Dog. Basically, none of those boys travelled half as far as their competition. They were all playing in front of a "home" crowd. If the PAC 10 wants respect, they should just go out and get some. I'd recommend home-and-home with LSU, OU, Alabama, Texas, Florida, or well, you get the idea. Just don't expect OU to come back to the west coast for a raping like they got at Oregon a couple of years back. You'll about have to get some referees from a different conference.

Sou'wester (Sent Friday, January 02, 2009 12:15 PM)

John Tamanaha, the article's author, wrote: "The fact of the matter is that a 5-0 postseason record will only bring the Pac-10 to .500 (17-17) versus non-conference Football Bowl Subdivision teams. That’s what happens when your winning percentage in all non-conference games during the regular season ranks ahead of only the MAC, C-USA and Sun Belt."

Hey John, that's 17-17 against top conferences. Unlike the Big Ten, Big XII, and ACC, who play against MAC/C-USA/SunBelt patsies in non-conference play, the Pac-10 plays real teams.

The 17-17 OOC record you point to as the Pac-10's "weakness" is actually a strength when you consider the caliber of opponents.

Every single year the Pac-10 has by far the toughest non-conference schedule, with only a handful of patsies. The other BCS conferences ? They load up on the patsies. It's easy for the Big Ten and Big XII to rack up 30-5 OOC records vs Kent State, Akron, and Louisiana-Monroe.

Jack, Tulsa, Oklahoma (Sent Friday, January 02, 2009 12:18 PM)

wow...probably one of the dumbest things I have ever read in my life. He usually has good articles. Sooooo....beating BYU, Oklahoma st and Penn st is meaningless I guess. Hmm, that's strange, it seemed to mean alot when Oklahoma beat Oklahoma st. "2nd vs 4th" team--John...

EXCUSES ARE LIKE THAT CERTAIN PART OF YOUR ANATOMY, EVERYONE HAS ONE.

This is, unfortunately, what the Pac 10 has to deal with. Total, 100% bias against them, and no matter what they do, it is always written off somehow like this mealy mouth drivel above, as "meaningless" "look at it a different way.." "well, they were the 4th ranked team and blah blah Bullshi* bullshi*"

I mean, the Pac comes out and beats some of the top teams in the country..penn st, Oklahoma st, BYU, all ranked in the top 25, and still they get slammed. John, just what is it then, that the Pac 10 has to do to get respect? The #9 Pac 10 team has to beat the SEC all star team by 40 points?

Stop wasting readers' time with garbage like this.

patrick (Sent Friday, January 02, 2009 12:27 PM)

Ok, so John Tamanaha, the article's author, harps on the Pac-10's 17-17 record versus non-conference Football Bowl Subdivision teams, and how this winning percentage in all non-conference regular season games ranks ahead of only the MAC, C-USA and Sun Belt.

Hey John, that's 17-17 against top conferences. Unlike the Big Ten, Big XII, and ACC, who play against MAC/C-USA/SunBelt patsies in non-conference play, the Pac-10 plays real teams.

The 17-17 OOC record you point to as the Pac-10's "weakness" is actually a strength when you consider the caliber of opponents.

Every single year the Pac-10 has by far the toughest non-conference schedule, with only a handful of patsies. The other BCS conferences ? They load up on the patsies. It's easy for the Big Ten and Big XII to rack up 30-5 OOC records vs Kent State, Akron, and Louisiana-Monroe.

Jack, Tulsa, Oklahoma (Sent Friday, January 02, 2009 12:57 PM)

I am not a pac-10 fan by any means ask anyone of my friends, but to say they haven't been spectacular this bowl season is absurd. The pac-10's SOS for non-conference games was impressive and the Big 12's signature non-conference win came against the 2nd best team in a non-BCS conference. Grant it TCU is no slouch, but lets put OU in TCU's backyard now see the outcome? OU would probably still win, but TCU would have a fighter's chance and remember they are the 2nd best team in a NON-BIG 6 conference against OU the champ from what people say is the best conference in the country. And Texas Tech, come on they struggled with Nevada, yea that’s right Nevada. They are the 3rd or 4th best team in the WAC. I hate to say it, but minus BSU the WAC is pretty weak. Back to OU the big-12 champ, which impressively they have won 3 out of the past 4 years has really gotten beat up in BCS games. And what about Pat White's feat? He is a record setting 4 and 0 in bowl games as a starting QB, but he plays in what is perceived to be the weakest BCS conference. One of those wins came in dominating fashion against guess whom? OU!!! In writing this I am not trying to bash on the big-12 even though it may seem like it. The only point I am trying to make is that every game has its own identity and to say that one team is worthy or not because something that happened weeks or months ago is just not right. I mean what happens if the pac-10 refs didn't see what Jake Locker did as over celebration and they go on to beat BYU. What happens to both of those programs seasons? The only way that any of this can be solved is for a playoff!! These kids are young and it may take them an entire year to be clicking on all cylinders, so we don't really see the strongest of teams until the end of the year. Do I have any objections to that? So here is my proposal; play the 4 BCS bowl games on New Years Day like it should be. That way all of the nostalgic type, the old timers can relive what once was. Yes big-10 and pac-10 alumni this is mainly for you since the granddaddy of them all didn't really have any national prominence this year because all USC gets is a pat on the back. Then the winners of these play a week later or so at neutral sites and then we get a true national championship game after that. Then guess what? We have a true champion, one that the mighty alumni can claim all to themselves. And the players well then they know who is truly the most talented team and the fans it is what we have all be dreaming for. The only people that I can imagine being sour about this is some cigar-puffing suit up in a press box that doesn't even know the difference between a guard and a tackle. And no suit, I am not talking about guarding the water bottle and tackling anyone that comes near it. So come on fans lets fix this! We need to fight, and we need people like good old Lou Holtz to lobby for us, because I know he would love to see the true champion each year.

James Hartwell, Boise, Idaho (Sent Friday, January 02, 2009 1:02 PM)

Give some love to BSU in the polls by the way. It will help us out for next year.

James Hartwell, Boise, Idaho (Sent Friday, January 02, 2009 1:09 PM)

The writer is a complete idiot, and the knuckleheads from Oklahoma that are still trying to justify their spot in the grand dance are overcompensating for living in the badlands of the country. Take the time to look back at history, & this year too. The Pac-10 truly is the conference of champions. More national titles than any other conference in all sports & the east coast whining & continued opinionated degradation of the conference simply does not change that.

West Coast & Proud, So CA (Sent Friday, January 02, 2009 1:16 PM)

Tamanaha never gives Pac-10 any love. He's a cotton-headed ninimuggins.

Paul Kim in Bear Territory (Sent Friday, January 02, 2009 1:54 PM)

John,
I agree with you when you said the Pac10 needs better bowl match ups, but before you condemn the Pac10 for being weak, maybe you should look at the strength of the non-conference schedules of the top four teams in the Pac10 (USC, Oregon, Oregon St., and Cal). Collectively they played 10 bowl teams and 2 patsies, versus 6 bowl teams and 10 patsies for the SEC's top four teams, and 4 bowl teams and 10 patsies for the Big12's top four teams. That is two "gimmes" for the Pac10 versus 10 “gimmes” each for the SEC and Big12 (2+ wins for each top team). The BCS should stick that in their computers.

George Ferch, Orange, CA (Sent Friday, January 02, 2009 2:03 PM)

Think about this, except for USC, all the bowl games played by Pac-10 teams were played before Dec. 31. Thus, level of competition is not that great. If they were any better, they would be matching up against tougher opponents; The record would have been different.

Tyler V (Sent Friday, January 02, 2009 2:17 PM)

What a TOTAL MORON and intellectually bankrupt peice of crap author of this post. Just another solid reason for a playoff system. Also the one team that beat USC (OSU) won nine games this year. They weren't from the SEC Big12 BIG10 ACC MW or the Independent ND. They were from the most challenging conference in the FBS, the PAC10.

anotherTROJANfan (Sent Friday, January 02, 2009 2:39 PM)

Point is well taken, but worthless just the same as you do not recognize 1)the tremendous year of the Mountain West conference. Good teams can beat anyone on any Saturday. 2)Pac 10 Must play every school in conference 3)Pac 10 schools schedule tough out of conference opponents SC beats Ohio State,Virgina, UCLA beats SEC TEnnessee, Cal beats Michigan. 4) Look at the out of conference foes the SEC plays and loses, they can only beat the Citadels of the world. Get real with your reporting.

Dean Doty, Albuquerque, NM (Sent Friday, January 02, 2009 2:53 PM)

Regardless of bowl wins, the Pac 10 is and always has been a joke. They get to host essentially a lot of home bowl games to teams for the most part used to playing in cold weather. I would love to see USC go to Norman, Oklahoma for their bowl game, or Columbus, Ohio instead of playing in their backyard. Oh, whoops, I believe there is a trip to Columbus this fall. Can't wait!!!

Steve Mahnken, Overland Park, Kansas (Sent Friday, January 02, 2009 3:13 PM)

Pac 10 is weak because they lost some out of conference games to MWC and WAC? John, take a look at the SEC and Big 12 out of conference schedules this year. They are shameful. Some more games against MWC and WAC would have been toughter than what those two sonferences played.

Ross, Charleston, SC (Sent Friday, January 02, 2009 3:23 PM)

More bias from another east coast coward. They bash the Pac-10 and are against playoffs because they know the Pac 10 would dominate every year.

The West is the best, always has been and always will be.

Wildcat (Sent Friday, January 02, 2009 5:37 PM)

I don't agree with this guy but PAC 10 teams HAVE to beat teams like NM State, Maryland and Baylor. Else guys like this will continue to have examples to point at. No matter if a CAL team which was suppose to suck beat Mich. State or USC crushes Ohio St. The PAC 10 is better then anyone gives the conf. credit for, but these guys will always say stuff like this until the PAC consistently beats teams they're suppose to beat early in the season. If they don't it's still a tough conference, but it gives these guys ammo to say it isn't.

Chris, Oakland, CA (Sent Friday, January 02, 2009 5:50 PM)

Looks like the OKIES ( people from Oklahoma ) still have not gotten over the embarrassment of that 55-19 whippin at the hands of USC in the 2004 BCS championship game. For anyone from Oklahoma of all places to call USC and the Pac Ten weak is weak. By the way, Texas Tech just got shellacked by Ole Miss which says more about the weak defenses of the Big 12 South and proves the Pac Ten was vastly underrated because at last check we finished the 2008 season in dominant Pac Ten fashion!!! USC FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT

Paul Edwards ( P-Dub ), Los Ange1es, Ca1ifornia (Sent Friday, January 02, 2009 6:44 PM)

This guy's a toolbox. Pac-10 just beat all 5 opponents, and 4 of them were ranked, and in all of the ranked matchups besides Penn State/USC, the Non-Pac-10 Team was ranked higher.

Finally, this dumbarse uses ASU, UCLA, 0-Dub, er U-Dub as the programs that justify his claim... Wow, great... ASU, UCLA, 0-Dub, and WSU were a combined 0-20 aginst the 5 bowl teams from the Pac-10. Thats sure is representative.

Finally, games played in December/January are MORE IMPORTANT. Why? Because by the time Bowl Season arrives, we actually know how good/bad teams are. Case in point, everyone thought it was a big deal at the time when Alabama beat Clemson. Turns out Clemson wasn't very good, and their coach got fired in the process. So, once again, beating a ranked team in December is just a bit more impressive than beating some team that has a pre-season ranking and no wins to prove they deserve that ranking.

John, Beaverton OR (Sent Friday, January 02, 2009 7:25 PM)

Interesting how the writer of this article, who's an adjunct professor teaching sports public relations at the University of Southern California, would be so disrespectful of the Pac-10 and their accomplishements this year. While the bottom half of the conference didn't perform well this year, the top half has been very impressive, which is evident by their collective records this year and the 5-0 record in bowl games.

Would enjoy seeing more SEC and Big 12 team's come out West to play the top tier teams in the conference and hopefully that will happen in the future. Regarding bowl affilations, I concur that the Pac-10 has the worst line up of bowls of any major conference and I'm sure everyone would welcome some improvement in that area as well.

In the net/net, the Pac-10 fared extremely well in their bowl match ups this year and I hope the other Oklahoma team does better then their in-state rival in the National Championship game. Would hate to see another debacle like the last time the Sooners played in this game, since it will just reconfirm that the wrong team was in the title game instead of the Pac-10 champion.

Stu Hamilton, Cincinnati, OH. (Sent Friday, January 02, 2009 10:15 PM)

What an unintelligent post. Isn't it obvious that bowl games are much more important than early season OOC games? Teams develope. They become better. Your a hack who clearly looks at reputations more than records. Oh, BTW, nice job Alabama. The West wins again.

Matthew Mann (Sent Saturday, January 03, 2009 12:55 AM)

Out of conf games - what about who those games are against. While the PAC 10 did not shine, at least they played real teams (sic I-A) unlike some many chest beaters down south.
The outcome of any game only tells me one thing, who was better for those 3 hours. Nothing more.

john l, west chester pa (Sent Saturday, January 03, 2009 10:00 AM)

PAC 10 didn't come off worse, and the author didn't make that argument. He just simply said that it didn't prove anything.

And it doesn't. The PAC 10 is still USC, and alot of trash teams.

The SEC and Big 12 are the only legitimate conferences.

Adam, Fayetteville, AR (Sent Saturday, January 03, 2009 11:12 AM)

LULZ Bama lost. What what SEC? Pac-10? What? SEC better than Pac-10? Seriously? LOL! As much as I hate SC, you have to admit they have SOLID performance each year. Sure they lost to Texas that year, but you have to admit their defense performance that year was dismal, especially some critical mistakes in that game.

qwerasdf (Sent Saturday, January 03, 2009 11:28 AM)

This column is utterly ridiculous, particularly now that Utah thoroughly destroyed Bama. It took a minor miracle for U to beat the Beavers at home, yet they eased through the Tide. Just goes to show that maybe the SEC wasn't "all that".

Hopefully, Florida will do us all a favor and shut up the obnoxious Sooner fans. Can we please get a playoff so we don't have to keep having these meaningless arguments? The BCS final game will mean nothing more than the Sugar, Fiesta, or Rose Bowls. Whoever wins is not the champion unless they can prove they can beat Utah, USC, and (most likely) Texas.

Kevin Mulkey, Centennial, CO (Sent Saturday, January 03, 2009 3:13 PM)

If the author has any pride, he would reply back to these posts to defend himself. The majority of us can see through his east coast bias. Why put down the pac-10's bowl accomplishments when others conferences have not fared as well? 5-0 record is hard to argue against unless you want to nitpick the trivial things like OOC and bottom half pac-10 teams who aren't even relevant in the discussion.

Jim, Orange County, CA (Sent Saturday, January 03, 2009 4:09 PM)

Looks like Utah and the Pac-10 get the last laugh. Any argument that the SEC is superior to the PAC-10 because of early-season losses to mid-majors just got flushed in the Sugar Bowl with a season-ending loss by Alabama, once overated at #1 because it's from the favored SEC. The PAC-10 and SEC should play more at the end of the year, though, that's for sure.

John, Beaverton, OR (Sent Saturday, January 03, 2009 5:31 PM)

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